1/19/14

Baptism Wars! Response to Pr. J.D. Hall - Part 3

I continue my response to Pr. Jordan (J.D.) Hall today. I am replying to a blog post he wrote over at the Pulpit and Pen site that was very condemning of paedobaptism and baptismal regeneration. The blog was written in response to my friend Tamara Blickhan's article that was published at The Examiner.

The original article that began this discussion, written by Tamara Blickhan, can be found here:

Baptism for the Christian: Rebaptism is not biblical

And Pr. Jordan (J.D.) Hall's response can be viewed here:

It's not "Re-Baptism": It's Baptism


Pr. J.D. Hall. Sweet hat.
I got a sweet hat too, yo! Plus Aviators. I win.

I responded to Pr. Jordan Hall's blog post yesterday, which is found here:

Baptism Wars! Response to Pr. J.D. Hall - Part 1

And I responded again in part 2 here:

Baptism Wars! Response to Pr. J.D. Hall - Part 2

Let's get to it.

Tamara Blickhan stated: "There is no recorded instance in the Bible where someone was rebaptized in the Trinitarian formula: in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Baptist must form the conclusion that rebaptism is biblical from a source other than the Bible or from the misunderstanding that a person must be saved by Jesus Christ first and that if they realize later that they were not truly saved, they should be rebaptized to obey what they consider to be a work to be done after regeneration."

Pr. J.D. Hall responded: "This is a hilarious claim for the paedobaptist to make, considering there’s no recorded instance in the Bible of babies, dogs, or aliens being baptized (and baptism does all of the above three the same good). The idolatry of ritual, in the author’s view, is so pervasive that even if the ordinance is not conducted in the name of the Thrice-Holy God it still counts as legitimate. Here, they separate the ordinance from the ordinance-maker, giving baptism the status of idolatry."


Bearing False Witness is in there.
This accusation actually makes no sense at all and should be retracted. As someone who was a Baptist for many years, I can attest to the fact that Tamara is correct. I know numerous people who have had multiple believer's baptisms, because they weren't really saved the first couple times.

Regarding Pr. Hall's response, it's flat out untrue. It's bullcrap. More seriously, it's bearing false witness. The author, Tamara Blickhan, does not accept Baptisms that are made in another manner than in the Name of the Triune God. I have no idea what is prompting these statements. A non-Trinitarian Baptism is not legitimate. Period. Lutherans universally believe that.


The final statement here is not true either. I would hope that a pastor would know the stance of Lutheranism before going off on an online rant "refuting" it. I sort of see what he is trying to say here when he states "Here, they separate the ordinance from the ordinance-maker, giving baptism the status of idolatry." But in reality, the opposite is the truth. Baptism is only effacious precisely because it delivers the Word of God objectively to a person. This is why we are baptised in the Name of the Triune God. It's water that has power and it's not empty ritual. It's the Word of God being directly given by means of water. It's the Word that gives Baptism its power, not the water.

His non-Sacramental theology rears its ugly head throughout his blog post, but here it is paramount. As a friend of mine stated,

"It's amazing how people can reject the efficacy of the sacraments due to human involvement in administration. This thinking would reject the office of preaching and violate Romans 10. Jesus' baptism by John would be rejected and God sending the Holy Spirit would be a mistake on His part. The Crucifixion would be rejected because the Jews by "wicked hands" took and slew Him.

The aforementioned instances were Divine works in spite of human agency, and even the Crucifixion was done by man according to God's eternal foreknowledge and decree, and it is this very act which takes away the sin of the world. The anti-sacrament logic actually nullifies the Atonement." ~Steven E. Anderson


Pr. Hall continues, "Once again, the Baptist does not believe in rebaptism, because this water-pouring ritual perpetrated upon unwilling recipients isn’t baptism."

As I argued in Part 2, this is attacking a strawman. On what basis does he assert that infants are  unwilling? The only thing I can think of is that his theology, despite being Calvinistic, comes back around to positive choice for Christ as opposed to Christ giving Himself to us via objective means.

Pr. Hall continues, "To be clear, the Bible’s stance against so-called “infant baptism” has nothing to do with the age of the recipient. The prohibition against baptizing infants is because they happen to be in the same number as many of the lost, unconverted, unwilling heathen of the world that need to first hear, receive and embrace the Gospel before following Christ into discipleship and being called “Christian.”"

Which is why we baptise infants. He has pointed out the major crux of the issue within this statement. Infants are sinners that need to be saved as well. The problem is, he also argues that infants can't believe, repent, or have faith. Where does this leave Pr. Hall? I posit that it leaves him at one of two places.

A. Universal infant damnation, or

B. Pelagian doctrine of Age of Accountability that rejects Original Sin.

He correctly points out that infants are born sinners and are in the same state as the heathen. He has no solution beyond this. I am sure at this juncture he will fall back on the doctrine of election and God's infinite wisdom and assert that perhaps all infants who die in infancy are elect or that at least some of them are.

However, Scripture never tells us these things. In fact, the only way of salvation that Scripture gives us is by grace through faith. If another one is inserted, one is adding to the words of Holy Scripture. Once you deny that infants can have faith, you have shut the Kingdom of Heaven to them.

Praise be to God, He gives faith as a gift to whomever He will. Also, He does this objectively through specific means of grace. Baptism is clearly one of these means of grace, especially if St. Paul and St. Peter in the didactic epistles have their say. Baptism saves (1Pe 3:21), it buries us and unites us to Christ (Rom 6:3-4), it raises us in faith (Col 2:11-12). Only grace can do this. Baptism must be gracious. It's Gospel for you. Objectively.

It's really pretty simple. Why do we baptise infants? They need it. They're part of Adam's condemned race and are sinful and need to be saved.

He continues, "How terrible it is to tell so many lost people that they’ve been born again because water has touched the tip of their head!"

What's not terrible is telling people that God objectively claimed them via His Word of promise given specifically to them in their Baptism. They are, after all, baptised into the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Mat 28:18-20). It bears repeating: It's the Word of God that gives Baptism power.

And finally, "This is why, at my Baptist church, we rejoice when folks whose parents forced them against their unconverted will to take part in a water ritual, make the decision to, for the first time in their life, be baptized."

He wraps up the blog with the same old strawman. And then in doing so, violates clear Scripture. One baptism. To re-baptise a person is to question the promise of God given to that person in their first, and only legitimate, baptism. And that is not a place any Christian wants to be, for God's Word is light and truth.

There are a lot more comments to be responded to regarding things Pr. Hall has said in the comments section on his blog. I don't think I will be dealing with them. There are very able Lutheran participants in that discussion right now. Hence, I shall be finished.

+Pax+

34 comments:

  1. I think Pelagius should have gone by shoe size rather than age.

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  2. Baptist age of accountability is also from their "tradition". Seriously, though, I'd love to see "infant dedication" in Scripture.

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  3. I would just like to add that the Bible was written by human hands... but given by God.

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  4. Out of curiosity, what do you make of the fact that millions of people baptized as babies in the Lutheran Church live their whole lives as unregenerate unbelievers? If its salvific....how come it frequently fails to save? Or is it your contention that every single person who was baptized is saved?

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    1. On what basis do you claim that millions of people baptised as infants live their whole life as unregenerate persons?

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  5. That's the only viable alternative to the idea that every baby baptised is saved and lives their whole life as children of God bearing the fruit of repentence. Is that your position?

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    1. No, not my position. The Lutheran position is that people spurn the grace so given in baptism, make shipwreck of their faith, and are lost.

      Faith must be fed. That's why we go to church to hear the Word and receive the body and blood of Christ.

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    2. We do not hold to the Calvinist TULIP. We agree with the T and the U, but disagree on the L, I, and P in some forms. I wrote a 5 part seriesa few months ago comparing Lutheranism to Calvinism and Arminianism.

      We're closer to Calvinism if one must compare. But we aren't Calvinists, either.

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    3. The majority of people within the Calvinist - Arminian paradigm don't understand Lutheran theology, so I thought it would be helpful to write a series on it. I compared Lutheranism to the 5 points.

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  6. Also- Andrew! I feel we should be facebook friends. Can you add me?

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    1. Yeah, add me on the left side of this page.

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  7. Cool. Most of my exposure to Lutheranism comes from Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio fame. I sort of thought that Lutherans believed in the perseverance of the saints in some form- that they could not lose their salvation. Is this not the case?

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    1. Kind of. "Lose" is a bad term. God never boots anyone. If someone is regenerate and then condemned, the fault lies solely with the person.

      We affirm unconditional election as a cause of final salvation, but we reject the Calvinist doctrine of reprobation. We're monergists in salvation, but not in condemnation.

      It would be accurate to say that we hold to the final preservation of the elect, but we do not find anything in Scripture that only the elect are ever in a regenerate state.

      Here is what I wrote...

      http://lutherftw.blogspot.com/2013/09/lutherans-calvinists-and-arminians_14.html

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    2. It may be helpful if you checked out the Solid Declaration of the Book of Concord on election. It's in-depth.

      http://www.bookofconcord.org/sd-election.php

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  8. The Book of Concord, as you probably know, contains all of our Confessional documents.

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  9. Yah. But here's a question. What happens to babies who aren't baptized? Seems you have the same "problem" as we do, even though we have a response that you would hopefully appreciate

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    1. Babies who are baptised are saved and we know they are saved. I shudder to speculate on what happens to unbaptised infants, but I do know a few things for sure.

      God is merciful.
      Babies can be saved by hearing the Word too.
      The only way of salvation that God tells us about is by grace through faith in Christ. None else.

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  10. Furthermore it seems that baptism doesn't REALLY save people- it just makes them savable, and it is up to themselves to keep themselves in the covenant by their works? Or it saves them temporarily, but Christ has no power to sustain them and Christ will invariably "lose some" that the father has given him? I know you may bristle at that, but that seems to be what it comes down to.

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    1. No, that's not our stance at all. I understand (as a longtime former Calvinist) what it "looks like" from your perspective.

      Here is where the Lutheran distinction between law and gospel and the old man and new man is very helpful.

      It is Christ who saves. Alone. By grace. Alone. Through faith. Alone. Baptism is grace, just as preaching the Word is grace.

      Furthermore, it's God alone who keeps us saved. We contribute nothing. This is Gospel. It's good news.

      Yet, the one thing people can do since we are sinners is reject and resist. We still carry around the sinful nature. We bring nothing positive to salvation, even after we've been saved.

      Thus, our claim is that God alone saves,God alone keeps us saved, and so on. Salvation is 100% God. We are monergists.

      We alone condemn ourselves, we alone reject the grace of God. We alone spurn Christ. Condemnation is 100% us.

      Yeah, that appears to be paradox on the surface. Think about it though, it makes sense biblically.

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    2. Maybe I'm butting in on a conversation that I shouldn't be so if I am, I apologize. I am a new Lutheran, former Baptist/Calvinist.

      With that said, I would like add...
      Adam and Eve were perfect, living in a perfect world. God did not damn them, they (Adam and Eve) disobeyed and rejected God.

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    3. Hop in as you would like Susan! Thank you for your comments!

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  11. Is this a case where it comes down to "its a mystery?" because you're right- I don't get that at all. If God alone saves us, and God alone keeps us saved by his active decree...how can some willingly chose to walk away and reject their salvation? I get that you would say that we're simul ustus et peccator, but I don't get the idea that even after we're saved, we're still seemingly slaves to sin.

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    1. The old Adam within us is always sinful and nothing else. The new nature is not...you have to think outside of the Calvinist-Arminian box here. It takes time to grasp it. It's a little foreign to both sides in that paradigm. I don't say that to be arrogant, I say that because I was there for many years. I saw Lutheranism as a jumbled mess.

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  12. Also, do you believe that Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. is true?

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    1. So does the "all things" include salvation?

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    2. Yep. Romans 8:28 is a guarantee for believers in Christ. We affirm that the elect and only the elect will be finally saved, and that election is indeed a cause of salvation, not a result.

      That being said, there is ample evidence in Scripture that there are many people who are believers and then fall away,or spurn God's grace, reject Christ, etc.

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  13. That doesn't make sense to me either. If all things work together for good for those who love him, how is a person losing his salvation "good">? How does that work for him?

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    1. Again, lose is a bad term. The key to see in Romans 8:28ff, is that it is a one-sided Gospel promise. In other words, God promises to save, to keep, etc. It's all His work.

      What if someone decides they don't want that anymore and outright rejects Christ?

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  14. They won't. Jesus will lose none that the father gives him. If Someone gives me 5 puppies to watch over, and I promise that I won't lose any of them. And one runs off on me and I never see it again, I can't tell the person "I didn't lose the puppy- they left me" that doesn't work. God's promises are sure. We can't lose ourselves if he promises we won't be lost.

    As far as the unbaptized baby thing- you ultimately are in the same boat as us.

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    1. I agree with you. Jesus loses none of the elect and all the elect are finally saved. He promises none of the elect will be lost.

      Yeah, regarding unbaptised babies...I know. But we also have 100% assurance that baptised babies who die in infancy are saved. That's what you guys don't have. ;)

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  15. So pretty much "its a mystery"?

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  16. I wonder if Pastor Hall practices infant "dedication" in his church (which is basically an attempt at a waterless Baptism).

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