Pr. Jonathan Fisk of Worldview Everlasting |
Baptism for the Christian: Rebaptism is not biblical
The response, coming from Baptist pastor, Jordan Hall (from here on referred to as Pr. J.D. Hall – a contributing writer of Pulpit & Pen), can be found here:
It's Not “Rebaptism,”: it's Baptism
Let it be said from the outset that the differences between Lutherans and every stripe of Baptists are too great to put the two groups in communion together this side of heaven. Therefore, these discussions, debates, and disagreements will continue to carry on through the ages. But, they're important to have because baptism is quite a large topic in the Christian faith.
The other thing that can be said is that this topic is far more touchy and important for Lutherans than it is for Baptists. Please don't misunderstand me here. I am not saying that baptism is not important to Baptists. What I am saying is that in Lutheranism, Baptism actually accomplishes a salvific role, whereas in Baptist theology, it is a memorial of an already inward condition. So, this is not a case of me sticking my Lutheran “triumphal nose in the air” at all. It's an acknowledgement of what the theologies teach and to show how diametrically opposed they are to one another.
Lutherans have a "higher" view of baptism that Baptists, for lack of a better term. It's more important and does something for you in Lutheranism. The correlation here is simple: if a topic is higher up on the list, it's bound to be more important. We say (as does the Apostle Peter in 1 Peter 3:21) that baptism saves. That's a huge deal. Baptists say it's an act of obedience or an act of worship done by the already regenerate believer. That's less of a big deal, therefore, a lower view of the doctrine.
So, the reader has to understand from the outset that we, as Lutherans, will go after the Baptist stance on baptism quite often. Why? Because we believe that Baptist parents are denying an objective means of grace to their children. In short, they refuse to administer the Word of God to the child via Baptism. This is denying the Gospel to their kids. That's a big deal. A massively huge deal.
Baptists are far less likely to go after the Lutheran stance on Baptism because, to them, everything revolves around a converted will which involves a certain cognitive ability. The Bible is clear that we don’t make a decision to be saved; it is all of grace. John 1 explains: “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
So they scoff at us baptizing our infants, but in the end, it's really not a big deal since the child is either covered under grace due to the Baptist doctrine of the Age of Accountability (Pelagian doctrine) or the child simply needs to be brought to faith later in life by God's hidden monergistic grace alone (Reformed Baptist). In either case, everything in Baptist theology regarding Baptism revolves around an advanced cognitive ability which an infant does not have (or the mentally infirm for that matter) and a converted will.
I will follow the order of Pr. J.D. Hall's blog as I respond.
Pastor J.D. Hall (JDH) began his article responding to a comment on the article Tamara Blickhan (TB) wrote.
Tamara Blickhan says: "The controversy over whether a Christian should be rebaptized if the person has already been baptized in one church or another denomination is cleared up using Christian creeds and confessions that explain the Bible about this doctrine of Baptism." (TB)
Hall responds: "A broad generalization, indeed. First, the Christian creeds commonly used to define orthodoxy (the Apostle’s Creed, Nicene Creed, Athanasian Creed) are silent on the issue." (JDH)
OK, let's get started. If Pr. J.D. Hall wants to call the first statement a "broad generalization," fine. I can live with that. That being said, when Lutherans speak of the "Creeds," we are speaking specifically about the three major ecumenical creeds that Pr. J.D. Hall has rightly identified. However, what he says about them and baptism is unfortunately incorrect.
He may want to read the Nicene Creed again. Near the conclusion of it, the creed states: "I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins." The wording of the Nicene Creed is quite clear. There is one baptism for the remission of sins.
Here is the Baptist's problem with that statement: first, they reject that baptism remits sin. Secondly, if baptism does remit sin and the Baptist definition of what baptism is errs, then the Baptist, against his will, actually teaches works righteousness. To be clear: If baptism is an act of the believer done as worship or obedience to God, and baptism actually remits (or forgives which is the same thing) sin, then the conclusion is inescapable. Sin is remitted by us doing something for God. That's quite a problem for the Baptist since they reject all forms of works-righteousness and rightly so.
Ah! But what about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? That's generally the Baptist response here. They simply (re) interpret the Nicene Creed to be talking about Spirit baptism. Well, that's not entirely incorrect, to be honest, since it is only the Spirit of God who regenerates.
So, their problem lies not in claiming Spirit baptism, but in separating Spirit and water into two baptisms. Scripture is replete with references to water and the Holy Spirit being together in one baptism.
First, can we all at least acknowledge that there is one baptism? St. Paul says there is in Ephesians 4:5, which reads: "one Lord, one faith, one Baptism." There are not two baptisms any more than there are two Lords or two faiths. And per the Nicene Creed, it is this one Baptism that remits sins. It's fallacious to separate into multiple baptisms. Scripture never does. A Baptism is a washing with water that contains water and the Spirit. Without water and the Spirit together, it is not a baptism at all.
I'm not going to put all the Scriptures word-for-word on here, but I will give references where water and Spirit are linked, and inextricably so. John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Matthew 3:13-17 (Mark 1:10), Titus 3:5, 1John 5:6-8. That's a short list, not exhaustive.
Tamara Blickhan continues: "The question only comes to us from Baptists because of their belief about what baptism is. The Lutherans, Presbyterians, and other paedobaptist Christian bodies believe that baptism is the work of God and should only be done once in a lifetime." (TB)
To which Pr. J.D. Hall responds: "One must wonder why this ‘work of God’ has to be done by the hands of men upon unwilling and unregenerate recipients, which is what every infant who receives this libation ritual is." (JBH)
Pr. Hall has really dug himself deep here. I see two major theological problems with his statement.
First, I have to wonder if Pr. J.D. Hall is a Gnostic. I am sure he denies such a thing, but hear me out on this. The beginning of his statement is an outright denial of any means of grace whatsoever. This is to say, in essence, the pastor is rejecting that God uses the natural world to save the natural world. I mean, he would turn right around and say that God uses Gospel preaching as a vehicle to save the unregenerate right? I think he probably would. Or else, if he is a Hyper Calvinist, perhaps he would argue that the Spirit works completely apart from means and regenerates people sovereignly and independently with no means whatsoever.
If the first case is true, then he affirms natural means of grace and his argument is specifically with baptism and he worded his argument very poorly. Baptism in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is no more a work done by the hands of men than preaching the Gospel is. Now I might be stupid, but I know a little bit about Physics (I have a B.A. in Physics).
When the preacher preaches, what we are hearing audibly is sound waves. That's natural. So, if God can give us sound waves to save the natural world, why can't He use water as well? How about bread and wine? If he rejects natural means altogether, he’s got a bigger problem: namely, Jesus. Jesus is a man, right? He was crucified in the flesh, right? I know with certainty that the pastor would not reject the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ. That belief would be utterly Gnostic and far outside of the Christian faith.
When the preacher preaches, what we are hearing audibly is sound waves. That's natural. So, if God can give us sound waves to save the natural world, why can't He use water as well? How about bread and wine? If he rejects natural means altogether, he’s got a bigger problem: namely, Jesus. Jesus is a man, right? He was crucified in the flesh, right? I know with certainty that the pastor would not reject the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ. That belief would be utterly Gnostic and far outside of the Christian faith.
Second, Pr. J.D. Hall just condemned every infant to hell. I don't think anybody believes that. He plainly states that every infant who receives this "libation ritual" (baptism) is unwilling and unregenerate.
Well, let's be clear: unregenerate people are not saved people. Grace saves us and grace regenerates us. I hope the man would at least agree on that. He plainly states that infants are unwilling and unregenerate. I assume that due to his Baptist theology, this is precisely because they are incapable of such.
The standard Baptist doctrine here to get around this is called the Age of Accountability, which ultimately denies Original Sin. Pr. J.D. Hall is not Pelagian, so it's completely inconsistent and silly to embrace the unbiblical dogma of the Age of Accountability. I won't say much more about that, because once upon a time, I said a lot about it. The blog can be found here:
Age of Accountability
As much as the pastor wants to label himself a Reformed Baptist, he's actually defaulting to conversion of the will here (which is against Scripture – see the first chapter of the book of John) and spoken profession, which can only be made by those who have developed their cognitive ability to a certain point. He robs from Peter to pay Paul, so to speak.
As a Reformed Baptist, Pr. J.D. Hall is a Calvinistic man. He would affirm, with the Lutherans, that it is the Spirit who regenerates and that faith itself is God's gift, and no matter how much cognitive ability a person has, nobody is capable of faith in Christ barring a regeneration wrought by God alone.
Do pray tell, why are infants excluded from this? The only answer is that they cannot understand it. They cannot use their brains like this pastor has in order to respond to the gospel, yet faith doesn’t equate perfectly to understanding, but rather to trust in Christ. And that is given by God. Thus, in his theology, he has actually inserted a salvation by knowledge scheme to an extent where God only gives faith to those who have the necessary cognitive ability to receive the gift. In other words, there has to be a clear decision made by the person, or at the very least, a clear ability to understand before God gives His gift. This is synergistic. We'll call it a happy inconsistency.
Look for part 2, I'll have it up soon!
+Pax+
Well said, said Herb Blickhan
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteJordan is pastor of Fellowship Church in Sidney, Montana, the town where I live. I have had many dealings with Jordan. He is a well-known, public figure in our area. I consider him a friend and in many important things, a trustworthy ally. We do, of course, disagree about baptism.
My pastor, David Warner of Trinity Lutheran Church, LCMS, and Jordan have exchanged lengthy emails on the topic. Jordan and another Lutheran pastor formerly of my town, Matt Richard, PMnotes.com, now pastor of Zion Lutheran Church, LCMS, Gwinner, North Dakota, and the (humanly speaking) baptizer of all my grandchildren, also have exchanged many messages about baptism online. Jordan posted a negative comment about infant baptism on my son's blog when he announced the then forthcoming baptism of his sons.
Needless to say, Prs Warner, Richard, and Hall all speak stridently to each other, holding with conviction to their respective confessions, but they have also maintained gentlemanly courtesy.
Jordan is a great pastor in that, unlike the typical Americanized evangelical church, where you could attend for years getting only namby pamby messages that never hold forth the definite confessional positions of the denomination, you could not attend his church for more than a short time before you would know just where he stands on the core vitals. He's even prepared a recently published catechism. He's really in there pitching for his confession, which we must at least respect.
Having said all this, I do think it is important for Lutherans to respond as you have done here, and I both thank and commend you for it.
Triggered by Jordan's comments on baptism, I wrote the following (using a 500 word limit):
How Can We Expect This To Work?
http://www.twinstonewarden.com/2013/04/how-can-we-expect-this-to-work.html
Tom Halvorson
There is nothing commendable in the foul way JD Hall behaves in his blog post and has been behaving on twitter. It is quite unbecoming of someone who calls himself a Christian, much less a "pastor."
ReplyDeleteWhat are you referring to specifically? Please name three examples
DeleteWhat specifically do you find objectionable? Specific examples are required
DeleteYeah, he's made some unbecoming comments. I don't think he understands the Lutheran position that well to be honest. That's what it seems like to me anyways. Those who know him could perhaps answer that better than I can.
ReplyDeleteI wrote about the little firestorm that is happening about my article on rebapism on my blog today. I quote what Pastor Jordan Hall said to me personally which can be found on open Facebook. Here are a couple things Pastor Hall said to me on Jan. 16th:
ReplyDelete"Infants believe. LOL. And then they stop believing as soon as they learn to talk and instantly forget everything they believed in and have to be taught all over again. That's absurd. OK, I said I'll relegate discussion to the blog. I'll quit commenting here. But that's silly, unreasonable, illogical, and frankly, stupid."
And, "Lady, if you're under the assumption that babies believe the Gospel, I'm not sure what else to say to you anyway. You're interpreting these verses in light of your Papist superstition. I've never met a regenerate baby, and neither have you. I have met lots of unregenerate Lutheran folks splitting hell open who think they're regenerate because some Lutheran-Catholic hybrid witch doctor told them they were saved for undergoing a papal ritual."
In response to Tony Verkinnes of Wretched Radio: when Tony asked about Pastor Jordan Hall's "silly, unreasonable, illogical, and frankly, stupid" comment to me, Pastor Hall replied: "Nope. That would be your papal traditions that Luther didn't live long enough to reform himself from. Because Scripture never tells you to baptize babies, unicorns or bigfoots, I'm obviously not saying the scripture is unreasonable, illogical or stupid."
You can read the rest at my blog below.
http://www.tamarablickhan.com/1/post/2014/01/baptism-for-the-christian-rebaptism-is-not-biblical.html
Andrew, thank you for taking the time to flesh out the problems with Baptist theology. My hope is that Christians will take a long, hard look to see if they are approaching the Scriptures in an eisegetical way or allowing God's Word to speak for itself and bow to the Lord who inspired it. You'll see an argument at the bottom of my blog post regarding the silence on infant baptism, communion for women, and dedicating babies in lieu of baptizing them.
Tamara Blickhan
I'm wondering how Pastor Hall comforts a grieving parent with the unbiblical doctrine of "age of accountability". Tamara, I enjoyed your original article immensely! Thank you.
ReplyDelete"And then they stop believing as soon as they learn to talk and instantly forget everything they believed in and have to be taught all over again." This statement tells me a) he doesn't believe--or was never taught--simul justus et peccator, and b) he doesn't believe--or doesn't understand--that the sinner makes the sin, not vice versa.
ReplyDeleteSo regenerate babies sin.
And babies (regenerate or otherwise) are sinning all the time, even before they walk, talk, smile, etc. Because that's what sinner do.
As a former Baptist, the Baptist perspective on "one baptism" is this:
ReplyDeleteThe "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" mentioned in Acts did not always occur at the same time as water Baptism. Baptists therefore state that the "one baptism" mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 refers to this spiritual Baptism and not water baptism.
When it is pointed out to them that the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" mentioned in Acts sometimes occurred AFTER Baptism, and sometimes not until after believing, Baptism, and the laying on of hands, Baptists will say "That was a transitional period. Today, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs the moment you believe and repent, and THAT is the 'one baptism' mentioned in Ephesians."
They always have an excuse to wiggle out of accepting the plain, simple interpretation of the text.
I believe that the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" mentioned in Acts had nothing to do with salvation, but was a unique "gift" of the Holy Spirit, giving special abilities to speak in foreign tongues and to preach great sermons.
Please provide a scripture reference showing baptism/sealing of the Holy Spirit occurred "after believing" in the book of Acts or anywhere in the word of God. Paul in Ephesians 1:13-14 sums it up nicely" In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."
ReplyDeleteWhere exactly is it in Acts or anywhere else in the bible that the baptism/sealing of the Spirit occurred "after believing?" Paul sums it up nicely in Eph 1:13-14"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."
ReplyDeleteJesus taught the same thing in John 7On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “ If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified"
Coramdeo,
DeleteActs 19:1-7 (KJV)
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.